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[Feedback] PVP-BASIC November 8th & 9th @ 23:30 EVE time


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#1 Gizznitt

Gizznitt

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:49 AM

Please reply with feedback you have about the class presentation (day 1) and the Roam (day 2).  

 

Quick little AAR for our class day engagement:  

 

Agony scouts spotted several targets out and about in the lowsec systems surrounding systems, and to be frank, my trigger finger was itching.  So I took the fleet towards Reuerrotta as part of our bookmark practical, with the intention of flashing a bunch of potential frigate killmails to the local pirates.  Sure enough, they brought out a smartbombing Typhoon, which managed to get a warp in as we were aligning off gate.  We lost a healthy portion of the fleet to smart bombs, but the BS was soon immobilized and taken down from a safe range.  We then went to Stacmon and reshipped, and when we returned Kill It with Fire had mobilized a small gate camp of t3 cruisers and BSs.  We engaged and they brought in a Triage Archon to rep their ships.  For whatever reason, their triage wasn't able to keep up their proteus, Geddon, or Devoter, netting us some nice killmails.  Meanwhile, we pushed the rest of them off field and went to work on the Archon.  The Archon was trying to remain at jump cap and cyno out when his triage cycle ended, but we kept pointing him before that could happen.  Eventually they returned with a solid BS fleet and extricated their Archon, but we scored another Geddon kill as a result.  Overall, a very fun battle to interrupt the lecture section.  

 

Typhoon Killmail:  http://www.agony-unl..._detail/116951/

Archon Battle Report:  http://www.agony-unl...related/116953/


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#2 Emp1

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:06 AM

Hi Gizznitt,

 

That was an awesome "on the field" lesson. Loved it.

May you share Typhoon killmail and Archon battle report in an accessible spot?

 

Thank you Gizznitt and thank everyone who enjoyed this fight (Agony, Alumni, Students and the people who played versus us) :)



#3 Stoof

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

A bookmarking practical that very quickly descended into PVP action!!  Looking forward for what may happen when we actually go looking for a fight in the roam tonight.



#4 Sidge

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:12 PM

Had a great time last night and enjoyed getting my first PvP kills! Looking forward to the roam tonight.



#5 Cmore Hanaya

Cmore Hanaya

Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

While looking through the Puplic killboards i came across a link with a Battle report

 

http://eve-kill.net/...kll_id=20393793 It look's like we lost 8 Frigates in the main Engagement

 

The Typhoon Engagement we lost around 21 Frigates and 19 pods but exacted our revenge as Gizznitt said

 

http://eve-kill.net/...kll_id=20393228


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#6 Bear Tullius

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:11 PM

Dropped myself right in the brown smelly stuff with the missus when I started cheering at 3am having just survived the Typhoon engagement! Apparently waking the wife at that time of morning to tell her you've just helped kill an internet spaceship isn't right....women....not sure I'll ever understand them....I'm sure she'll get into the spirit of things for tonight's roam. :P 
 

As for Feedback, Gizz REALLY enjoyed myself last night, good clear instruction, however being in the military I can't help when someone asks for post exercise points to stick my nose in! Here are a couple of points that I hope will help you with future courses

 

  • At the very start of the course people were trying to talk over each other when trying to answer questions (maybe as part of your initial brief explain how you want to nominate ppl to answer questions - the technique you used was very effective but could do with explaining a little earlier) it did however add weight to your demonstration of  "confused comms".
  • In regards to the Comms section, I felt a slightly more detailed explanation of "voice procedure" e.g. when and how to interrupt the FC to pass on relevant information. What critical information needs to be passed etc.  I know you did try to cover this subject later however I feel that whilst covering the subject of waiting for pauses in comms/ keeping the message short and sweet as not to jam up the channel. It felt disjointed to me and I think may have worked better if taught in station and  then have been demonstrated by your Recce screen to the fleet as soon as we left station and on the later bookmark instruction or mini roam what ever happens first.
  • The section on ECM I found to be very useful and informative, to be honest it turned a subject that I was prepared to bury my head in the sand and try to ignore in to an easy to grasp subject that I'm quite looking forward to using it in the future.
  • The section on Directional Scanning was rushed, there is plenty of material on your site and others that provides a lot of information, however despite your best efforts not everyone will have done the required pre-course preparation and for a completely new player attending your course the subject wasn't covered in enough detail to enable such players to start using the techniques involved. I do understand that this is only day one of the course and that it may well be your intent to cover the subject in greater detail on day two but that was not the impression I got.
  • A possible topic you might like to consider covering is fight or flight (how to pick fights) detail some rough guidelines on what sort of targets to be going after solo, 3-5 man gang or larger fleets and what sort of targets to avoid that may be bait ships (Again this may be a subject you intend to cover on day two in which case I'll shut up).

Again Gizz thank you very much for the effort that yourself and the rest of the Agony guys/girls have put into this course, I know herding cats can be quite challenging  but you all seemed to pull it off effortlessly and I look forward to day two tonight (however I may need to keep the noise down or I'm likely to end up getting divorced!) ;)

 

Bear.


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#7 Emp1

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:18 PM

  • The section on Directional Scanning was rushed, there is plenty of material on your site and others that provides a lot of information, however despite your best efforts not everyone will have done the required pre-course preparation and for a completely new player attending your course the subject wasn't covered in enough detail to enable such players to start using the techniques involved. I do understand that this is only day one of the course and that it may well be your intent to cover the subject in greater detail on day two but that was not the impression I got.
  • A possible topic you might like to consider covering is fight or flight (how to pick fights) detail some rough guidelines on what sort of targets to be going after solo, 3-5 man gang or larger fleets and what sort of targets to avoid that may be bait ships (Again this may be a subject you intend to cover on day two in which case I'll shut up).

 

 

Fully agree here. While DScan can be learn from reading (at least a good part), I am really lost when trying to understand which ship is in front of me. For instance I just transported all my frigate from JITA to the class destination and came across a red war target. Since I was full of fit, I warped immediately looking at the red target. However while warping, I hit info and clicked on the picture of the ship... it was a rookie ship. I do not care if I do not killed it. I just want to know how to identify which target is what, and what should I engage please :)

 

Is there a way to know the "class" of the ship (frigate T1, cruiser T2) easily for instance? That could be a good start.



#8 Gizznitt

Gizznitt

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

I'll attempt to answer several of these questions, or address several of these points prior to the roam.  


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#9 Jeremiah Cole

Jeremiah Cole

Posted 09 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

  • The section on Directional Scanning was rushed, there is plenty of material on your site and others that provides a lot of information, however despite your best efforts not everyone will have done the required pre-course preparation and for a completely new player attending your course the subject wasn't covered in enough detail to enable such players to start using the techniques involved. I do understand that this is only day one of the course and that it may well be your intent to cover the subject in greater detail on day two but that was not the impression I got.
  • A possible topic you might like to consider covering is fight or flight (how to pick fights) detail some rough guidelines on what sort of targets to be going after solo, 3-5 man gang or larger fleets and what sort of targets to avoid that may be bait ships (Again this may be a subject you intend to cover on day two in which case I'll shut up).

 

 

Fully agree here. While DScan can be learn from reading (at least a good part), I am really lost when trying to understand which ship is in front of me. For instance I just transported all my frigate from JITA to the class destination and came across a red war target. Since I was full of fit, I warped immediately looking at the red target. However while warping, I hit info and clicked on the picture of the ship... it was a rookie ship. I do not care if I do not killed it. I just want to know how to identify which target is what, and what should I engage please :)

 

Is there a way to know the "class" of the ship (frigate T1, cruiser T2) easily for instance? That could be a good start.

 

 

That sort of thing is pretty hard to cover since there are so many different ship types that can be used in various ways, and the only way to really learn/recognize various ship types is to do it over time. I had this issue when I took the Basic class as well, but I had this flashcard system linked to me that I still use to make sure I recognize all the ships out there. http://phase.org/Eve.../view/flashcard

 

On the fly, if you don't recognize a ship on your d-scanner, double clicking it in the d-scanner window will bring up the info window for that particular ship.



#10 Itkovian Beddict

Itkovian Beddict

Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:01 PM

On the fly, if you don't recognize a ship on your d-scanner, double clicking it in the d-scanner window will bring up the info window for that particular ship.

 

Alternatively, right clicking the ship will give you the option to 'remove X from Overview' where X is the ship type (frigate, interceptor, heavy assault cruiser etc.).  That will let you know which type it is.



#11 Emp1

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

Thank all for the info and your tips.

Even with that in mind, I will be a very long process to know what is what :)



#12 Bear Tullius

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 08:05 PM

 

On the fly, if you don't recognize a ship on your d-scanner, double clicking it in the d-scanner window will bring up the info window for that particular ship.

 

Alternatively, right clicking the ship will give you the option to 'remove X from Overview' where X is the ship type (frigate, interceptor, heavy assault cruiser etc.).  That will let you know which type it is.

 

 

Such an obvious thing too do yet something I had not considered and the flash cards are a great link that I fully intend putting to good use. As I said I found the course to be a great deal of help and only hope to aid in making it even better in the future. For any of the other students that may read this if you haven't already, take a look at the videos done by Agony on spiralling approaches and D scanning. Both are clear and concise making the subject matter easy to understand. :D 


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#13 Fraucha

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

Had a great time and learned many finer points that I have missed along the way. However, I can't make the roam tonight, but would like to reserve a spot for next month especially if it is closer to Euro time zones. I figure I got about 4 hours sleep in two and a half days and at this point can't keep awake. 

 

The class was well worth the time and the gate battle was great. I will be sure to take the other core classes also.

 

Thanks

 

Fraucha Tanakoh



#14 Zhull Skor

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:10 PM

Enjoyed myself last night, and learned a lot.  

 

Unfort. I died in both encounters and I had at that point destroyed both my ships I had for class.  But I enjoyed listening to the interaction of the fleet.  I was so hoping for my first kill though.  I've been playing for a year, but I'm a carebear :), I've never been in on a kill.  And due to being called into work tonight, I will not make the roam :(.  

 

Hopefully I can join in on the next roam in my TZ.

 

Good luck tonight everyone!



#15 Kiron Blackwing

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:05 AM

Great class and the roam was amazing thank you all in Agony who has made all of this a reality. It was great fun and learned quite a lot ;-)

 

With regards,

Kiron Blackwing



#16 Andrew

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:23 AM

Excellent class. Had a blast while learning. Was amazing! Will definitly sign up for more classes in the future

 

Andrew Kasirtan



#17 ReaperCussion

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:43 AM

Two outstanding days of instruction and roaming. I learned so much. It was pretty special going up against the Archon; and that was just on the class presentation day. Thank you Gizznitt, Mister Soul for the great job as FC and the rest of Agony.



#18 Tyranis Marcus

Tyranis Marcus

Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:32 PM

Well, I left some feedback for you over in the October thread.  :(

 

Basically...that was fun.  I mixed up my days and missed the class night, but the roam was a good time, and well run.  Thanks!


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#19 Marcus Lines

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:51 PM

The instruction was great, and was an excellent learning experience.  



#20 InferiDiii

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:14 AM

Both the course material and the roam were excellent.  Thanks very much for the classes you offer.  I look forward to tagging along as an alumni as much as I can and attending any other classes you offer.

 

Incidentally, for ship identifying I don't know if this is useful for anybody, but it is for me to quickly look up a ship and get some basic info (I have it printed out).  It's just an ordered list of ships which also shows race,  class, tank, dps, drones, and notes - http://wiki.eveunive...quick_reference



#21 One Two Buklemaschu

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:30 PM

Im Alumni, but i attended the class again. ( because you know some of us are a bit dense round the edges )

 

The class was great, If i had one comment it is just that its unfortunate that the info on Bookmarks and tactical warping that we had in the class i attended was cut short or dropped, However i guess its understandable given the circumstances that presented themselves. Im sure that the engagement with the Archon will be a major highlight for a lot of the students.

 

The roam was as expected a lot of fun. We got off to a great start with those brave Newbies, then got to see a lot of tactical back and forth as we played cat and mouse trying to get a good fight. I took a lot away from that part, even if we didn't actually get a lot of engagements. I imagine however that it was pretty confusing for some of the guys with limited PvP experience. If possible some explanations of the tactical 'Too and Fro' when doing this might help here. or at least a short synopsis after ever 15 mins or so might be worth considering. The growing fear that i would end the roam in the same ship i started was unjustified as we managed to find some excellent fights towards the end. It was great to see how the Hydra Frigate principle can be put to great effect as we took out that Rapier, despite heavy resistance on field.


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#22 Jeremiah Cole

Jeremiah Cole

Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

 If possible some explanations of the tactical 'Too and Fro' when doing this might help here. or at least a short synopsis after ever 15 mins or so might be worth considering. 

 

That's a great idea. Normally the issue with explaining the tactical details of the situation is that people have questions about the events going on right then, but if we gave a synopsis on what had happened shortly after it would certainly shed some light. Something I think we'll consider in the future.



#23 Carver

Carver

Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

 

 If possible some explanations of the tactical 'Too and Fro' when doing this might help here. or at least a short synopsis after ever 15 mins or so might be worth considering. 

 

That's a great idea. Normally the issue with explaining the tactical details of the situation is that people have questions about the events going on right then, but if we gave a synopsis on what had happened shortly after it would certainly shed some light. Something I think we'll consider in the future.

 

This.

 

Honestly, I had hoped to get more of you killed sooner. I thought it was needless to do it at the Orvolle gate with two gangs nearby, but would like to have engaged either of the two entities singly. In retrospect, I should have allowed both to engage and see where the chips fell; Stacmon was close enough to keep the podded back en route. 

 

Glad you had a good time.


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#24 Xor'rakkar

Xor'rakkar

Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

I really enjoyed both days. Especially the very detailed informations about the different EWAR modules on day 1 helped me a lot. 

The battles were great and I was impressed by the capabilities of such a frig gang.

 

I am really looking forward to the more advanced classes :)

 

 

 If possible some explanations of the tactical 'Too and Fro' when doing this might help here. or at least a short synopsis after ever 15 mins or so might be worth considering. 

And I also consider this a great idea!