12 replies to this topic

[Sonmi Anninen]

Thanks to all who came out, hope it was educational and fun for everyone.  AAR to come soon, but for now I'll say that those were some of the best fights I've seen on a Basic roam, particularly the kitchen sink armor gang in X-M and the MOS shield cruisers in UO9.  

 

Please leave any feedback on the class here, we'd love to hear it.

[Hasril Pux]

From what I could see there is very little, if anything, that fleet command could have done better.  So this time I'll focus on my own mistakes as a pilot.

 

I brought one Ishkur AF and two Tristans as a backup because I knew I was more likely to get primaried in an AF.  On our first run I brought out the Ishkur and actually survived for longer than I thought under fire from a Harbinger and a flight of Hobgoblin II's from a nearby Exequror.  I managed to break contact from my attackers briefly by pulling range with my MWD, but I made the mistake of diving back in too soon.  I got cocky and paid for it fast, the very same Harbinger and Exequror retargeted me immediately and finnished me off in no time. I learned that the MWD requires a large amount of precision and much more situatuional awareness than I brought to the table. I'm working on that, slowly.

 

After I was burned down and podded I immediately re-upped my clone in Stacmon and took out one of my Tristans. I caught up with the class in short order and enjoyed many many fights thereafter, surviving into 62% hull during the thick of it. GOD I love watching my flaming ship arc through space!

[SmokinFighter]

It was a great class on the 5th helped me alot rejog my pvp memory. The roam on the 6th was probably the most intense roam I've ever had. When i first saw the fleet i was thinking that this was a pritty small fleet and we might not see very much action, Oh boy was i  was wrong, it was a small class but man that was a insane roam. We killed at least 50 ships all sizes and just as many pods, lost some ships but in terms of the isk battle we won.

 

The FC's did a great job and so did the class teachers, keep up the wonderful work guys and looking forward to future Classes/Roams

[Marcos]

Fantastic class and roam! I lost two ships and got podded once, but it was all worth it. I will definitely be back for the next class!

 

Go, Go, Griffins!

 

Marcos

[Kor Sanyo]

(Disclaimer: I was a professional soldier for many years, and I'm older than the Super Bowl, so I'm 'wordy'. Grab a cup of coffee and a comfortable chair before you read any of my AARs. You have been warned.)
 

The Short Summary

      Overall, the best 'learn to do it' class I've experienced in EVE. Worth every dime in real money that I paid to attend. Twenty million isk in game is trivial to earn, but giving up a day's wages from my real life job is not – having said that, I have no regrets about taking the course. I look forward to attending many more AU classes, and perhaps one day becoming a member of Agony itself, if I measure up.

 

The Long Explanation

 

Day One: The Classroom

• Class size was small enough to get my questions answered promptly, but not so large as to feel like it was dragging when multiple students had questions on a subject.
• Schedule was very close to posted times, and it started right on time. I hate showing up for something and then having to wait an extra half hour or more while the late comers straggle in (or the instructor/leader gets his class materials together).
• Comm discipline was excellent, and the instructors had clear, easy to understand voices. They were well prepared, and experienced, and it showed in the way they presented the information and handled questions. No one came across as rushed or impatient, which was refreshing.
• The subject material was well organized, and covered pretty much everything a new pilot needs to know to contribute to gang/fleet operations. It flowed in a logical progression, moving from inside the station to outside the station, then a low sec 'field trip' for the practical exercises. Despite being a veteran pilot, and taking this course as a refresher (having been away from the game several years) I did learn a few new things, which was a pleasant surprise.

Notable moment, Good

• One of the other students warped to zero on a belt (instead of warping in at 100km etc) and got jumped by belt rats. The student couldn't escape (because the rats had a scrambler frigate), so the class charged to the rescue and stomped the rats in short order. Not only did the class react promptly (and aggressively), I got to use my remote repper and armorbot to repair the student's damaged armor after the battle. Morale and confidence soared for everyone except the rats. Class three, Rats zero was the score.

Notable moment, Not So Good

• During the bookmarking exercise (learning to time TACs dropped on approach to a gate), I failed to account for lag and dropped my BM too late. This put it under 150km from the gate itself (rendering it useless, as I couldn't warp back to it, and from the BM I couldn't warp to the gate). While sorting myself out to redo the exercise, I failed to deselect the gate/autopilot. Instead of warping back to a previous BM, I jumped through the gate into the next system. For a new pilot, this is a common mistake – from an experienced pilot, it's an embarrassing screw up. Fortunately, I was able to burn back to the gate and jump through to the fleet with no damage to anything but my pride.

Things that might improve future classroom sessions

         Not much to suggest, really. It was a damn fine classroom experience.

1. I would have liked a lot more time practicing the spiral approach, since it is critical to tackling and surviving in a frigate.
2. A little bit more time to practice scanning people down with the Dscanner in class, too. Maybe have several students scatter in an adjacent system, and then see how long it takes the instructors to scan them down (as a practical demonstration of why 360 scans are important for awareness). Perhaps some suggestions on how a student can practice Dscanning on their own time( i.e, after completing the class).
3. You could make a PDF of the class material for students to download before class, as a single source reference (rather than multiple links in the wiki). Much easier to refer to this in space (alt+tab) than trying to follow links in a browser. Less lag, too.

Day Two: The Roam

       It went very well, overall. One of our first kills was a Cynabal, and it was a genuine pleasure to get the killmail on it. Although I lost a ship to a Harbinger's drones, I later got top damage and final blow on a Caracal who tried to burn me down at the edge of a bubble. Kudos to the ECM guys, especially the Griffins - they made our fights much safer/easier, and several of them got blown up doing their duty. Reshipping and rejoining the fleet was painless, with an instructor guiding us back. We also got to do a short practical exercise (warping into a friendly bubble), and we survived a halfhearted bombing attempt launched by a stealth bomber (who then ran away). In fact, there were outstanding fights all night long. To me, our losses seemed very low, considering who/what we engaged and killed.

 

One negative, briefly

       About 2/3 of the way through the first four hours of the roam, things started to heat up (as we had the potential to engage several different groups of enemies in rapid succession). The skirmishers started to sound much more excited (speaking faster and changing their minds in mid-report), and then we had multiple Agony pilots calling for jumps and warps (to different gates) and trampling the FC's instructions. When I mentioned it by typing in fleet chat, I was told 'just turn up the volume for the FC in Teamspeak' or 'listen for the FLEET word and you'll know the command is for you'. As I pointed out in chat at the time, the issue was not one of volume. It was multiple voices keying the microphones up over each other, giving conflicting instructions, and ALL OF THEM using the J word. Even an Agony pilot came on coms later and said he couldn't decide who the actual FC was at that point. Particularly confusing was hearing the phrase 'tacklers should jump through and try to get points on them' several times, after the fleet had been instructed to warp to a stargate. (Being a tackler, this was a command I was specifically listening for all night long, as the FC usually announced who he wanted points on first, etc). After a little more confusion, the FC got everyone to shut up  and calm down. After that, he sorted things out in short order and the roam resumed without any drama. Other than that brief period of stress, comms discipline was very good, and the fleet never seemed like it was vulnerable. I chalked it up to the tempo of impending battle increasing, and adrenalin starting to flow among the scouts.

 

     In the end, despite losing one frigate, I made a small profit (insurance payout + selling off ammo and T2 drones I scooped after the bubble brawl). More importantly, I managed to not lose any drones to cold warps, and I didn't kill anybody I wasn't supposed too (you don't want to know, let's just say I have dumb drones some days). Overall, it was enjoyable and successful – not what you'd expect for a 'class of noobs in frigates' roam. I'd take this class again in a heartbeat.

 

Well done, ladies and gentlemen. Well done.

Edited by Kor Sanyo, 07 April 2014 - 01:53 AM.

[geserr]

Excellent intro to PvP for the carebears out there.  Going over the basic concepts clearly and concisely, the instructors(s) along with the AGONY staff have a very polished presentation.

 

The roam was a BLAST!  I had fully expected to lose my 3 frigates (Tristan T2, Rifter T2, and Executioner T2) quickly and yet didn't end up losing any.  I can't put that up to my piloting (yet) but rather the well thought out fleet comp and the Hydra principle in general.  Flying the Tristan, I didn't expect to get any KMs, yet I somehow managed to get final blow on 3!

 

Overall, way too much fun on the roam!  I look forward to joining the roams as an Alum and continuing the course plan.  Waiting patiently for the "WolfPack" class.

[Aote]

 

Things that might improve future classroom sessions

         Not much to suggest, really. It was a damn fine classroom experience.

1. I would have liked a lot more time practicing the spiral approach, since it is critical to tackling and surviving in a frigate.

 

Wish I could have made the roam, looked like a good time. 

 

Spiraling and its practical applications are covered (and practiced more) in the Skirmishing class.  

[Cmore Hanaya]

So here is my AAR of the class roam

 

So we had around 30-35 people in fleet with 5-6 of them being Agony quite a small fleet for a class. However the fleet size made us quite engagable as we found throughout the night.

 

So while forming the fleet is sent out a couple of skirmishers to find us some targets each one heading up the Syndicate pipe from different directions. A gang was reported in K5 8V camping. After the comp being reported I mulled it over in my head to if we could engage and get a good fight out of it rather than whelp on either side. Well as happened I decided that we could engage the fleet and I was expecting quite a few losses on our side as is the nature of fights with frigs only. So their comp was Armor cruisers with logi support, fast tackle and a couple of T3's around a 12 -15 man gang. On route we ganked a Cynabol quickly and had a quick peek in north eastern syndicate. So onwards towards X-M. We had their logi pilots reported to us and our 4 rainbow fit griffins were allocated their own logi targets for Jams. This proved very useful. So after their bouncing about as well as our skirmishers the fight was on. Calling primary on a exequror to remove some reps and allow us to burn through their reps. Second a navy omen as these are deadly to frigs. I then called a Proteus primary but between his huge tank and the remaining reps on field we were unable to break him so target change was called for and we pull down a few more cruisers and start on the devoter. We were unable to kill him before his timer was up and he jumped into K5 into a waiting skirmisher. We wait out our timers jump in and burn him down with some excellent bubble timing from Mister Soul the Pod is going nowhere. Wait what is this a 2.8 bil pod down http://www.agony-unl...l&kll_id=126887. Yes a few of them escaped our blood thirst the Proteus and Harbinger that I can remember (I have a thing about killing Harbingers they must all die but alas this one didn't). I think we lost 4 or 5 fleet members during this engagement. Result!! http://www.agony-unleashed.com/killboard/index.php/kill_related/126923/

 

So a bio is called and a Agony member is on his way to assist our podded/ self destructed from Stacmon to 3KNK. After Bio we have a quick engagement with a small Frig/ dessie gang in 3KNK but we were unable to get hold of the Rapier but never mind they de aggro and scarper which I don't blame them for. http://www.agony-unl...related/126930/

 

 

After a little cat and mouse in 5-F we manage to get a couple more kills and move away. I didn't want to hang around in their home system for them to undock a counter to us and gank us all http://www.agony-unl...related/126915/

 

So down towards the VSIG pocket for some fun down there. Good fights can be had as well as some good ganks. One of our skirmishers died while tackling a mining barge due to overwhelming numbers. well he said he would be back and quickly reships and we all go back. http://www.agony-unl...related/126920/

 

While heading back towards 3K for another bio we get eyes on a shield kiting gang. Very dangerous to us again but in we go. This was a great fight too. slowly bringing them down 1 at a time they de agress and head off with GF's in local. Again this was a difficult engagement for us to take but due to great tackle and our Hydra fleet we were again able to survive another tough fight. http://www.agony-unl...related/126928/.

 

So off to Stacmon with the fleet to drop off people in High sec that were ready to leave we get a couple of ganks in Low sec on the way by using kill rights. People dropped off we have around 20 in fleet now. Time for a second quick run around. Some excellent skirmishing from Kyltus and Mariner we gank a Domi great team work from the 2 of them keeping him around for us to catch up and kill. A couple more ganks and I am getting tired so decide to run the northern pipe and out to high sec to call the roam.

 

We get this nice fight again in PF on the Orvolle gate thanks to our skirmishers and a Cheap arse Caldak ( I will explain this in a minute). a couple of drake are reported with support and Our brave caldak get tackle and loses his ares. More agony arrive to hold them on field and the fight is on. Caldak returns in a partially fitted interceptor to loot his wreck for the required fittings.. (see I told you cheap) and gets tackled. We burn through the large bubbles wrapped around the gate and warp in http://www.agony-unl...related/126939/. I call their support frigates as primaries because they are able to hold us while the Drake with rapid light missiles can kill us. They made very good use of reload timers to agrro go through the gate and return several times but we prevail again.

 

Thank you all for the great roam and all being on the ball with your Ewar that gave us the upper hand all the time. I do apologise for not whelping the fleet at least once as I normally do for the experience of death and poddings but I did try.

 

Hope to fly with you all again as Alumni

 

Cmore

 

[Nyne Lives]

So here is my AAR of the class roam [...]

 

OK, you've beaten me to it. Sorry for not getting it done last night. Busy days.

[Xen Chancel]

I would like to thank all the Agony crew for putting up such a professional and fun learning experience for a pvp virgin like me. The lecture was informative without being overbearing. Students had plenty of opportunity to ask questions.

 

But the roam .. omg the roam. We were a pack of killer bees stinging from each and every direction. Being such a noob, I was usually the last person to get to the action, but that means i get to see the action from 50+ km. All the big ships were just swarmed by purple dots. JC mentioned the difference between a blob and a hydra, well we were definitely not a blob! We were so well coordinated its hard to believe we just met the day before. Thanks to Cmore for calmly leading us into battle, and even though he said in his post that some fights were dangerous for us, he certainly didnt say that before we went in! I must also thank the few Agony scouts/recon who founded and bait fights for us (how many times did Caldak die?). I felt most if not all of our fights were well won by the time we got there.  

 

My most memorable fight would have to be the first one. Cmore said jump jump gate ... primary target ....and when i got to the other side I was in such shock I just froze! Well not really because my hands were trembling but I couldnt do anything. When I finally woke up to the fact i am in a fight I didnt know what to do. Ugh pointing , spiralling , scrambling, everything I learnt went out the window. I managed just to lock onto the target as it blew up. I soon got used to it a few fights later but even then I felt so insignificant. There were pew pew all around me and I pew pewd back but I wasnt really convinced I achieved much. Actually, if theres one thing I learnt, its that I should never go through null alone. Its scary how fast the scouts find targets, and when they spot you, you have maybe 30sec to haul ass!

Anyhow, I had much fun! I got a kill , I got blown up and I will definitely be back and fly as an Alumni. Thanks again guys! Keep up the good work!

[Cmore Hanaya]

A great way to contribute in large Frigate fleets like we had is to lock and shoot the primary while you pick a target to point or scram. Even if this moves you out of your optimum rage for damage so be it. A tackled target can quickly be turned into a primary thanks to you. Also if you have Ewar tracks/damps just pick a target lock  it up and throw it on. That helps save Fleet mates and is not insignificant at all.

 

Never be scared to go into Null alone remember in this game you never truly die. Also dieing helps you learn how to stay alive. Null isn't a scary place at all. Yes it has it's challenges but i personally find fun in challenges. The ships you pay isk for are there for pretty explosions, always consider it lost when you undock it, yes even in high sec. If it makes it to a station it is a bonus.

 

Grab a few frigs and try it out alone you'll be suprised how null really isn't scary. You can even hop into a Covops frig or stealth bomber and sit cloaked off of a gate in a pipe and watch the traffic and fights go by that can give you some idea's on what you could fight alone, Solo tactics and even how to avoid someone from killing you.

 

The aim of the game at the end of the day isn't a) to have billions of isk, b.) A full collection of mods and ships everywhere or even, c) a Postcard from Poitot. The aim of the game is to have fun and enjoy yourself while you play

[gajuith]

The roam took place 8pm on Saturday for me so I completely goofed the days. I wasn't going to be able to make it on my Sunday, so I thought I would just attend the class as an Alumni. Only being the class day, I thought I'd just bring a single Hawk along in case we saw any action during the practical portion like we did my first time through as a Student.

I quickly learned my mistake, but for some reason I didn't feel the need to purchase any backups. I never would have thought that it would turn out to be one of my luckiest, most exciting experiences I had since first signing up for that 14 day trial a little more than a year ago.

The fleet was great. I felt everyone worked in concert as if we had been rehearsing for ages instead of only four hours for the majority.

The utmost praise goes to Cmore, JC, Sonmi, and the entire Agony crew for making this happen. I hadn't had a really positive PvP experience in Eve until I became a student. Fleet command was sharp and spot on where it counted and I believe the kill board makes that pretty clear.

I look forward to countless more roams and trying out some skirmish/fast tackle on the next one. My Crow hasn't yet seen any action.

Edited by gajuith, 08 April 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[Cadfael Subodai]

I found the class and the roam to be excellent and well-organized. My only recommendation would be that if scouts are going to start issuing orders that the instructors communicate that to the students first. I know I wasn't the only one who took a jump and then had orders change to head to another gate, given by a different voice. This was the period referenced in another feedback post where it was unclear to many who was actually FC-ing and which gate the jumping was happening at.

 

That was a short period, however, and I'd like to thank everyone for the opportunity to fly EWAR for the first time.

 

 

Go, Go, Griffins!

 

Special thanks also to Jeremiah Cole for taking care of his Griffin pilots.